Milk and Madness

 Hello friends, welcome back to the Milk and Madness podcast with your hosts Dee and Nhi. So after this monumental life changing experience of bringing new life into the world, I kind of hate to tell you this, but at some stage you might need to return to work because hello, kids cos money. In today's topic, we'll talk about the juggling act in navigating work life balance. Although what work looks like is slightly different for everyone. I think we can agree that returning to work after having a baby can be super stressful. There are a lot of new things to consider.

There's a new mental load of things you know, that have been added on into your life. Will you be able to pump at work or do you need to stop breastfeeding? Who's going to look after your kids? What's it going to feel like to have someone else look after your kids and the logistics of getting your child to and from care and juggling that with work demands?

What happens when they fall ill? There's just so much to discuss. A quick shout out to my cousin Que-Anh, who's a wonderful mom of two beautiful girls who requested this topic. So, let's start from the start. D, with your two kids, when did you go back to work? I think with Aidan I went back either when he was nine or ten months old, roughly.

And then with Amelia she was eight months old. What about with you and the boys? Yeah. So with my oldest Kenzo, I went back to work about 10, 11 months. So he started childcare around that time and then with Ambrose.

It was significantly earlier he was about five months old and I went back to work part time in both situations. And I, and I tried to do it a little bit different having learnings from the first time. So Kenzo, I went back for four days for maybe six months or so. And then with Ambrose, it was also part time, but staggered.

To get to full time really quickly. So for the first month, I went back three days, second month, four days, and then third month it was full time. So, it was different approaches to both of them. Did you find it challenging going back to work after maternity leave? Yes and no. I think with Aiden, I was lucky in that I took a lot of annual leave and I had a lot of long service leave.

And so I did take 10 months, and then after the 10 months, Calvin decided he wanted to spend some time with Aiden and took some leave as well. So the transition going back to work was quite easy and I went back part time as well. So it was quite easy. In that Calvin was looking after him.

So it was just that transition of me. Going back to work, but not having to deal with like the worries of who's going to actually look after Aiden and the logistics of it, which is what we said in the intro, that was the easier part with Amelia. It was a lot harder. There was a COVID was happening. There was a lot more things happening at that time.

And I went back into a new role. and into a full time role. So, and she went straight into child care. So the pros for that was Aiden was already in child care, so it was a lot easier, but obviously the cons were she was a lot younger and having to go into child care straight away. I wouldn't say I lost a lot of sleep over it, but it definitely had some points that made me second guess, doubt myself, doubt my decision to go back to work. What about with you? Sounds like, it sounds like the experience Ambrose had was a little bit different to Kenzo's.

Yeah, I found it really, really, really challenging and significantly more challenging the second time around with Ambrose. And, oh, it's, it's really hard when things don't just end with you and there's other people to consider and significantly harder, even when it's just your partner that you need to consider because these kids rely on you and they become the most important thing to you straight away.

But then, you know, what else is important is my career and my identity and me outside of a mom. It's super important as well. So there are aspects that that I found really challenging, but the, the things that come to mind first is Ambrose wasn't even walking yet. He wasn't even crawling yet when he started childcare.

And I can't even tell you the mom guilt that I felt during that time. And it's something that I still think about now, like all the time, I'm literally getting emotional talking about it right now, but it was one of those situations where I'm like, you know what, they're not going to remember it.

That's what everyone, everyone was like, they're not going to remember it. Ambrose is not going to remember it. He's thriving. It won't, it won't negatively impact his life. In fact, it might be really great for him because I know, from Kenzo, And from, you know, our mother's group and everything like that, that childcare can actually be really great for kids because they get that social, that, that exposure to social situations and they can play with other kids, their age.

And you know, they're doing activities all day or that kind of stuff. So yes, I knew at the back of my mind that there were lots of positives to him starting childcare and him starting childcare five, six months earlier than Kenzo wasn't. wasn't necessarily going to mean, you know, there was going to be trauma or anything like that, because that's where your mind goes to.

But I couldn't help it, you know, and I suppose the thing for me was like, one, they won't remember, they won't know. And two, hopefully, you know, if this comes up when they're older, that they would appreciate having, um, a role model, a mom who also prioritized their career and things that they wanted to do in life.

Right. Because what happened was I was offered, I was offered an opportunity for work that I literally couldn't say no to, and it's my favorite job. I love it. Still like every day is great. I know that's just sounds so cliche, but I'm not, I'm not lying. I genuinely love my job so much. And I know the decision to take the job offer was the right decision, but I still, it still comes up with a mom guilt.

Now I still think about it. I still get emotional, emotional when I think about it now. So was it challenging? Yes, absolutely. And I think a lot of it came down to just feeling like I weren't able to give them both the same amount. Yes. Of alone time with me and that, that time you can't get back, you can't get back that time.

So that was really, that was really tough, but I'm kind of okay with it now. Clearly not as I get emotional, but yeah, in a nutshell, the answer is absolutely yes. It was super, super challenging. You're so right. Like with the second child, like with Amelia, I can't, I can't, hand on heart, I can't say that the experience has been the same. As much as I would like to give them the same experience, as much as I would like to replicate what I was able to give to Aiden, to Amelia, it's just not possible because she is the second child and there is another child that I have to divide my time with.

Whereas with your first child, you don't have that. anyone else that you have to divide your time with apart from your partner. And so as much as like, I do, I feel so bad about it. And I'm sure you do too, that you can't give them the same experience. And you're always like, Oh, you know, I, I stayed home longer or I took them out more or they had mother's group, even just our friendship group.

Let's just take that as an example. They're all Aiden's age. Like, yes, you've all had second kids now, but they're all not the same age as Amelia. And so those things, like I just. You know, they sit on your heart like you feel them and you see them and you know, you try to give them same like, you know, like for like, but it's, it's impossible to do.

And sometimes you do, you do have to prioritize your own mental health and your own careers and things over, you know, provided that your children are okay, but over your mom guilt, which is super hard to do clearly. We're still, we're still challenging that. So in terms of, so you went back to work and obviously now you're full time, in terms of managing your work life balance, how did you do that with two kids or how, how does that look like in your household now?

I think it's something that you, you learn to do and I think it's a bit of trial and error. in regards to kind of getting that balance. I don't actually believe in work life balance because one is always going to take more time. I think it's, it's, it's a term work life. Harmony. I like harmony. I don't like, I also don't like the word balance because it's, you're so right.

It's not a balance in any way, shape or form. If you try and balance it, you're just going to burn out. It's, I don't know. I use the word harmony. Yeah, and I think it ebbs and flows in terms of there's, there's going to be times when family is going to take more time.

There's, there's weeks, months where maybe work you know, you can prioritize a bit more time to it. So the word balance is rubbish. Work life balance work life harmony. Yep. That sounds great. But I think it's like maybe, yeah, to set up From the start, don't expect that you're going to have this amazing work life balance because that will probably set you up for disappointment and it's communication is so important in terms of it's, it's not just my job, it's my partner's job as well.

And together we need to work as a team. And, you know, there are months and weeks where it works really well, and there are other days and moments where it doesn't work so well, but I think in terms of communication, it's really important it's giving yourself grace as well, because. Look, from my experience and from talking to my friends and seeing other relationships, I think as a woman, it is so easy for us to put so much pressure on ourselves and feel that responsibility in having our lives run and operate smoothly overall across all different categories.

I just feel like that somehow automatically falls on us. And it's not like my husband expects that or anything like that, but I take it on, I put it on that responsibility is on me. And I don't know why we've never had that conversation, but it's something I have done. And I don't know if it is just how, you know, the societal pressures maybe, because I would say, and this is a generalization and I know that there are relationships where maybe, you know, the dad does more.

Great. But I would say most of the time it's the The woman who takes on that responsibility. And so I don't know, it's, it's really hard in terms of getting that harmony in place. And I think one of the things that I would say, the advice that I would give is that before you go back to work, have those,

serious conversations with your partner. What's it going to look like when I go back to work? Are you going to do more housework? Are we going to share this, that, you know, what, what's going to fall on me? What's going to fall on you and how are we going to work together as a team so that we don't fall apart and that the household doesn't fall apart.

So it's, it's really hard to manage. I feel it's slowly getting a bit easier now that the kids are getting older and, and you know, your kids are older than mine. So. I would love your, your thoughts on that, but I kind of feel like as the kids, their needs change and they're getting older in some way, managing that work life balance is easing as well.

What do you think? Yeah. So I, I, I do agree that harmony, like I said, the word that I use is harmony because I think you're setting yourself up for failure if you try and think of it as a balance. So for example, this week I'm only working two days. We've got a public holiday this week. I took yesterday off because Aiden had a doctor's appointment.

And then I've taken Friday off because he's got pupil free day. So there is no balance this week. I'm more focused on family time and looking after the kids or Aiden and doing that. over my job. And that's okay. There will be times when all hands on deck and we've got a project or we've got a deadline or something, and I do need to work longer hours or late hours.

And, you know, Calvin needs to do dinners and pickups and whatnot. So it is a harmony. If one is overtaking the other, that's when I think you have problems. Like if obviously you're focusing all your energy in your work, then you're going to come home, you're going to be grumpy.

You're not going to give your family the quality one to one time that they need. So it is all about harmony and it does ebb and flow. Like, I think people don't realize that, or they just forget, or they just assume that there has to be a balance. And so like in one day, you've got to like do all your work and focus on the kids.

And like, you just, the mental load in that thinking is just beyond me and I can't do it. So that's why I prefer harmony. And I try to harmonize as best as I can. In terms of what you said about taking on responsibilities. It's funny because recently I have been thinking about that particular thing. And what I've concluded is that we And again, generalizing, but me, let's talk about me. I take accountability for things and that's why it ends up being my responsibility. And that's not just at home, at work as well.

Somebody will talk about something and then for some stupid reason, don't ask me why I tend to just make it my problem. And I tend to take accountability for it. And then all the things that need to happen with that particular thing, whether it's make an appointment for your child or make their lunches or, you know, send an email or whatever it is, whether it's work or home.

somehow that becomes my problem. I take accountability for it and I need to see it through and make sure that it's done. And I'm really starting to, to change that. Both at work and at home, it means obviously increasing communication because if I don't, then it doesn't get done. And potentially then that has a flow on effect and something can be missed.

So with the way that Calvin and I operate or even just I operate now to try and reduce that mental load and to try and have more of a harmony, I've tried to simplify my life a lot better. So, we were talking about our calendars just before we jumped on. And one of the things that we've done is to have a shared calendar so we can put appointments in.

We can put like if we're planning to have a play date or something so that somebody doesn't double book or, and so that's just less. Having to remember to tell them about it or like, obviously we'll still tell each other about it, but if we've forgotten or we thought we mentioned it, at least it's in the calendar and we are on, are on the same page, we can both look at it.

And sometimes I'll write, you know, take Aiden to whatever sports today or whatever it might be, just so that Calvin remembers that he needs to take because I've got something else on and just simplifying things like, and we spoke about in previous episodes, but just decluttering. Like decision fatigue for me is beyond, like, and I feel like.

Women again, generalizing, but women in general, we just decision fatigue. Like we're always making decisions. We're always having to consider things. We're always having to worry about things we take them on. And so just simple things like declaring my wardrobe so that I can just pick out an outfit, like just simple things has made such a huge difference.

Even at home, like in the pantry, in the fridge, like lunch boxes, just simplifying those things, having everything on hand easily, so I don't have to be like, what do I have to make him today? Pre planning meals, just those little things that actually make a big difference. Otherwise, you're frazzled, you're overthinking it and it just, throws you off and it throws your whole week off, throws your whole day off, throws your whole morning off, depending on you know, when you're doing it.

And I just, I don't like feeling that way. Like, I'm just like, why do I live like this? Like, why am I always so stressed, so frazzled? And I'm just like, you know what, if nothing fits me or nothing works together, I'm just going to call it all out, set up some outfits, have some winter ones, have some summer ones and Bob's your uncle.

Like it's fine. Why do I have three wardrobes full of clothes and nothing that I can wear? So just little things, whatever it might be for you, simplifying them, trying to make that decision fatigue, reduce that as much as possible, and then I can focus on things that actually are important. So that for me is how I sort of harmonize my life.

I can and it's still a work in progress. There's always going to be things. In nutshell, that's, that's kind of how I go about it. I think, yes, like, if you don't have kids and you're thinking of having kids and you're listening to our podcasts, it is, it's not sexy. This stuff at all. You know what I mean?

Like, in terms of that extramental load and how you manage it. And I think what you said is, is spot on and it's stuff that you did not know straight away, right? Like that stuff has taken time to get to. And kids thrive on routine, right? And to make life simpler when you have kids, routine is great. Right.

So a lot of the stuff that you've said is putting things in place so that there is a routine or, you know, there are less options to decide, so you don't get analysis paralysis and you're not having, you don't feel exhausted for having, making decisions all the time, but it is, it is really putting things in place.

It's routines and putting I suppose , if you think about like a work analogy, it's thinking of having certain process steps, like a flow of how you, how you manage your life. So it's, it's definitely not sexy, but it will help in regards to just lessen the weight of the load of, of the, you know, the mental stress that you, that you have when you become a family.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to be exhausted by 9 a. m. in the morning. Like, that is not fun. Yeah. So, you know, if I've got to put some steps in place, if I've got to pre plan meals, like, that stuff is, like, to me, sounds so lame, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. With returning to work, was there any really big challenges that you had to overcome?

So with the first time of going back to work from Matt leave with, with my oldest Kenzo, it was quite easy actually. Because you know, I didn't have that mom guilt of having him start childcare super early. To be honest, was I loving what I was doing?

Did I love the company that I was working for? Did I really genuinely care in hindsight? No. So I think that made it easier for me. Right. The second time with Ambrose and I mentioned I was offered this role and I couldn't say no and I was super excited about it and I love it. But that was really hard.

And if we interviewed Marie, who I work with, she would, she would tell you like the first few months was a real struggle for us because I found it so hard to shift from being a mom. And that kind of, that. That role and my brain was switched on to being a mom to switching it back to work and a job that I cared and I wanted to do really well.

And, you know, it's a startup is me and the founder. So there's like so much relying on it. Everything I did could be seen. Everything I did had impact and I found. That I don't know, maybe it was that, that, that pressure was like a positive pressure though. It still impacted me, but

it was really hard shifting from being a mum. And like looking after the kids and, and all that stuff to work. And I honestly felt there were days , when my brain wasn't working. I know that sounds so silly, but I'm pretty quick at picking things up usually. And I found that first couple of months was really difficult.

Things definitely felt slower in terms of my ability to process it, to understand it, to pick it up and to think. More wide as well. It was really, it was a really interesting experience, but then once I overcame that, then we're all good. But that was the biggest challenge. And I remember, I remember it vividly and Marie and I, every now and again, we laugh about it.

Like, do you remember when you started and it was so horrible? Like, yeah.

In hindsight now looking back on those first few months, did you find that you were really hard on yourself? Absolutely. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And that would be something that I would say to others who are about to go through this situation is give yourself grace, but it is so hard to give yourself grace, especially when you are normally quite hard on yourself, which is what I am.

Because I have high expectations of myself. And then when I don't deliver it, I'm really hard on myself harder than I would be on anyone else. But the, the other thing that I was really dealing with was the mum guilt. So with Ambrose. Not only was I changing careers pretty much drastically, like obviously I had the skills for this role, hence why I was hired, I was going from a top four bank, right.

Of Australia, like massive corporate 40, 000, whatever staff members to a tiny startup where I would be employee number one. So I was shifting in terms of that space and they work obviously so differently. So I was trying to navigate that as well. And then there were things that I had to learn for this new role.

Then I was dealing with the mum guilt and yes, in hindsight, I was so, so hard on myself and that made it worse. that magnified, you know, any issues that I was having at work because I was so hard on myself. So yeah, when, when you go through that situation, I think, you know, just in terms of that personal awareness and I, I am aware that I am hard on myself.

That's just how I am, but I was still really hard on myself. It's just, it's just how it went. How do you, how did you end up giving yourself grace? Was it just time? Like over time, just things got easier and your brain switched back on and you. Did you give yourself a bit of time to process new things with the new job and the new role and the new structure at home?

Or did you do something, like, did you sit yourself down and be like, stop doing this, stop being mean to myself? No, I didn't have that conversation with myself. It was, no, it was just time. I think once the cogs started working again, honestly, that's how it felt. Things just started to, to make sense and I started getting things again.

And, and, you know, the other thing is you also feel that in that moment where you're failing at every, every aspect of your life, because You know, I felt like I was failing at work and then I felt like I was failing as a mum because I was like, Oh God. Okay. Well, I've taken this role. I'm doing terrible.

And he is in childcare and he can't even crawl yet. So you just feel like you're letting everyone down. But you don't think about how you're letting yourself down when you're kind of going through this stuff, but yeah, just give yourself grace if you can and time two things that I think are really hard to do when you're in the moment and you can't see through the fog of, of everything that you're feeling.

I agree. I agree. And I think we had very similar experiences and maybe it goes to show that. Potentially, that also has something to do with the new role, because I found it quite easy to go back to work with Aiden going back to the same role part time capacity. So, and like I said, Calvin was at home with Aiden, so I didn't really have the stress of childcare and worrying about introducing new people to look after Aiden.

Not that I had an issue with them, because they are trained professionals and we did tours of different childcare, so we chose one that worked. You know, we felt right with, but when I went back with Amelia, it was, it was very different. And I think back to what I said earlier about the guilt of the second child, where you feel like you don't give them the same experience as the first, that definitely played a role in that.

But then returning to work in a full time capacity also meant that my time was very limited and also in a new role. So. I had the same thing. Like my brain just did not work. And now that I think about it, yes, it's partly mum brain, which I still have to this day and I will have for the rest of my life, everything, everything that I stuff up.

Oh, mum brain. My kids will be 45, but like, Oh, mum brain. I'm claiming that for life. I've had kids. I'm a mum. That's it. I've got mum brain for life. Apparently our brains do change when you become a mom. I don't know any of this. For better or for worse. No, I think, I think just something happens.

Just change. Yeah. Okay. We might have to look into that and talk, talk about that. But I definitely felt. That going into a new team, going into a new role, there was that added pressure of learning things, of new people, just being out of your comfort zone. And I think I'm a little bit like you, like I dislike not knowing what I'm doing.

Like, as much as I love learning, like, I love learning, like, I hope I never stop learning, like, throughout my whole life, like, I want to be a student. And I'm constantly always looking for new courses and new things to learn, read new books, etc. But I don't like that feeling when you're required to do something that you might not be fully across, trying to learn, like, the new stakeholders, trying to learn just the new processes, the new ways that the new management want to, want to run things, like, all those little things that, you know, you knew inside and out in your old role.

You could do the old role in your sleep, which is probably not a good thing because they're obviously not challenged. But, you know, that's just, there's that comfort that comes with that. And then in your new role, , you feel like such a failure. You absolutely hit the nail on the head.

You just feel like you're failing. And with Amelia, we did have her in childcare straight away. Again, Aiden was there. So it was like, we knew the educators But it's still, it was still hard. I also stopped breastfeeding with Amelia as soon as she went into childcare. Whereas with Aidan, I was pumping at work.

So I prolonged the breastfeeding experience. So it's, it's never going to be the same with baby one, baby two, baby three. So on, you cannot. Give them the same experience and looking back on my childhood, I know that my sister and I did not have the same experience. Like we lived in the same household with both girls, but we didn't have the same upbringing.

So I put a lot of pressure on myself to give Aidan and Amelia the same upbringing when I know that I can't. It's never going to be the same. And that's still a challenge for me. It's still something that I need to remember and consider.

So we both found it really hard to go back to work when you were thinking about going back to work, did you also consider or felt that your career goals or what you wanted to achieve from work? Did that shift?

This one's a really hard one for me to answer because I don't have very strong career goals. Like, I'm not very career driven and I never have been. And so I don't think that having children has changed that for me. I think I have gone through an evolution, like a personal evolution, and my career goals have changed because of that.

Which is annoying because. Couldn't I have done it earlier? I don't know. You had to make it hard for yourself. Oh look, you know, life would be so boring if I didn't. I do feel though that talking back about giving ourselves grace. I feel that when I was younger I put in a lot more hours, I put in a lot more work, I put in a lot more into work than what I'm willing to put in now.

I feel like I am giving myself grace to put aside projects that aren't urgent. Whereas when I was younger and I didn't have kids and I had more flexible time and, you know, I might have, you know, stayed back an hour and just gotten something out of the way.

Whereas. my mindset has changed and I do look back at that harmony and I've only got X amount of hours and I'm only one person. I can only do this and either I work back as needed, but not all the time. Whereas before I would work ridiculous hours and I would just put my heart and soul into jobs and it doesn't work for me to be that person anymore because I just, I have a family, I have kids and they rely on me.

And so my perspective has changed in that way. In that respect but I do see myself now looking at needing to provide financially for my family. So that aspect plays a role in where I'm looking and I'm being a lot more strategic about my career and what I'm learning and the people that I network with, whereas I never looked at those things before.

So, again, I don't know if that's from a family perspective, or that's just me changing and growing and maturing. What about you? You obviously had a big career change last couple of years. How has your perspective changed on where you want to go?

It's a tough one for me as well, because I would say that I'm really ambitious and I genuinely think I can do anything that I want to do. Like I really do think that if I want to do it, why not? That's kind of how, my attitude is. Only thing that can stop me is me. Really it's how I, it's how I see things.

So I decide what it is that I want to do and, and go for it. I suppose. There are some things that have shifted quite a lot and, and you definitely mentioned those things. And I agree with you in regards to your priorities change in terms of your time and how much of your time can you allocate to work, you know, working late, working weekends, all that stuff.

Before I had kids. You know four years of my life where I worked corporate in this talent HR role, also owned and operated a cafe and did everything. So every night I would be doing payroll marketing. You know, whatever it is, managing the website, doing our social, all that stuff during the day, nine to five working in this HR corporate role.

Then on the weekends working physically in the cafe, like I literally worked Most nights and every weekend for four years, and there's no way in hell would I consider doing that now. Like there's just no way physically I would fall apart mentally. Absolutely as well. And my kids are my priority now.

That's it. Right. But I'm still quite ambitious. Not that I want to be, you know, global marketing manager of whatever, whatever, like it's, that's not where my ambition is. My ambition is more about feeling fulfilled. I think like that's super important to me. And I have had roles in the past where it just wasn't really that engaged.

And. Mostly because I kind of got to that point where I wasn't learning anymore. And I'm very similar to you in terms of, I love to learn, like I'm the sponge. I want to grow. Why would you not? So that's why the role that I'm in right now is just so perfect for me because every day I learn something new and I sponge off Marie, who I work with and together, and we have a third member of the team together, we make decisions that would generally be across five teams.

At a corporate, you know what I mean? Between three of us, we do literally everything that a business requires. So I'm still very ambitious in terms of wanting to grow, not necessarily in terms of like, you know, hierarchy and all that BS. I couldn't care less about hierarchy, but I want to grow. I want to be learning. I want to feel engaged and. That my brain is being utilized and that I am challenging myself. So still very ambitious in terms of all that stuff. You're right. In terms of money, you know, will I try to increase You know what I'm earning? Yes, absolutely. But there's a balance with that in terms of all the other stuff as well.

So like, you know, if an opportunity came that ticked every other box and the money was the same, I would, I would really seriously consider that because that stuff Is worth so much to me. But obviously I can't go backwards because, you know, you get used to the way that you live, you've got a mortgage, you've got two kids, they have activities.

You know, we've got Lego to buy for Christ's sake. So I don't want to talk about Lego. Yeah. It's so funny, but you know, the, the other thing as well is that my, I suppose my perception of parents at work, before I became a parent, I always still recognize that when I worked with colleagues who were parents, I got it because if they had to run off and leave a meeting early because their kids were sick, I got it.

But I know that there are quite a lot of, this is a generalization, but before you have kids, you might not be, you might not be able to understand that. But because I come from a big family and I'm, Exposed to that quite a lot before I became a parent, I was already cognizant of the impact of having kids.

on work and how that plays out, I suppose. So I think, you know, if you're someone who, who hasn't had that exposure and you work weekends and, you know, every overtime and all that stuff, and you don't want, you don't understand why other colleagues can't do that. Becoming a parent is going to be like, here you go.

This is why. And you'll, you'll really understand that really quickly. So just with that, when you became a parent, did you experience any judgment or stigma from maybe colleagues who don't have kids who didn't understand that you had to run off?

Not to my face. I don't think so. I was really lucky that , after having kids, the two managers that I had both had kids and understood that it's hard work.

Going back to work that first time was super easy, going back to work that second time, even though I was in a full time role and there was lots happening. Like I said, my, my boss at the time was understanding that I was a new mom, especially with a second kid coming back into work.

And I was really lucky in that respect. I didn't have many occasions where I had to drop everything and go and leave everything with everyone else.

All my roles are very singular. Like I am responsible for what my workload is. And so I was never in a position where anything that I. was doing would be on somebody else's shoulders. So I think that stigma never really sat with me because just purely the type of role that I had.

I don't know if karma's real or whatever, but being the person that would pick up the slack for other parents and at the time, hand on heart, I did not think of it like, why is this person not pulling their weight just because they're a parent, which I know that some people do, and I have had those comments from other people, like, oh, just because they're a parent doesn't mean they can just leave things, and I'm like, yeah, but this child's sick, like, there's nothing they can do about it, and so I never held any hard feelings or anything, I would just get the work done, and so maybe, I don't know, maybe.

The karma gods are like, oh, let's give her a nice role. Cause that is an added pressure as well. When you feel like you're letting down the team, when you feel like you're not pulling your weight, that's an additional pressure. And sometimes I do feel bad, like if I have to miss a meeting because the kids are homesick, but there's literally nothing I can do about it.

And I'm not going to. not look after my kids because I have a meeting, like work is work and it will still be there. And I just have to remind myself of that. What about you? Did you have any experiences where there was some stigma or some judgment around being a parent and maybe returning to work

Surprisingly, not at all, actually, at any of the businesses and there were, I've lost count. I used to change roles every two years. So I think there were three companies that have been involved or I've been at throughout this whole time. Returning to leave, returning to work kind of, situation, but yeah, no, surprisingly not at all.

And the, the first two businesses were massive companies. And I think my work like yours was quite siloed or People just were really understanding, so that was really great with Marie. The first six months to almost a year, starting with her, Ambrose was sick a lot.

Oh my gosh. He just started childcare and, and everything like that. And he was younger too. So maybe his immunity wasn't as strong yet. Like, I don't remember Kenzo being so sick often, but we've had everything twice. And. Yeah, Marie was really great and understanding. You know, she doesn't have kids herself, but she has nieces and nephews.

And so she really understood it. And I remember there were times when she's like, go, kids are priority. I'm like, thanks. Thank you. So it does make your life easier when people you work with are really supportive or understand that. As a parent, yes, work is still super important and the project that is, you know, due tomorrow is super important.

And you're not saying that it's not important, I'm just saying that my kid being sick is more important and that it trumps whatever this is that we're talking about at work. So, yeah, that's, that's my experience and it was really great. I'm just thinking in terms of this topic, like we could probably talk for another few hours.

But as we wrap up today's episode of Milk and Madness, it's clear that returning to work after welcoming a new life is filled with so many challenges. And some triumphs, returning to work after having a baby, isn't just about logistics. It's about navigating a new identity. How that new identity meshes with an old identity that you might be trying to cling onto for dear life.

Leaving as one person and returning as an entirely new one. It's important to face the challenges head on and find support systems that work with you. I really stress that in terms of just working. Communicating with your partner and talking to your family, friends about how you're feeling and giving yourself some grace if you can.

Until next time, this is me and D signing off from milk and madness.

Stay resilient, find that harmony and keep embracing the madness. Speak to you soon. Bye. Bye.