Milk and Madness

It felt like hot shards of glass were being pulled out of my nipple every single time. And every time he would feed, it just, it would bring on anxiety. 📍 📍

Hey friends, this is Nhi and Dee and we're the hosts of the Milk and Madness podcast. Thank you for joining us. We recently touched on breastfeeding and how it was one of the biggest eye opening experiences we've had. Today we are taking a closer look at the breastfeeding journey and What helped us through

now, we know that society might influence how you feel about breastfeeding and about yourself.

Should you choose not to breastfeed? We are here to have a real and vulnerable conversation about our experiences in the hope that helps you get through this very short period of time. So let's run through some questions that we prepared earlier. With both kids, you did a combination of breastfeeding and formula.

Is that right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just going to do a quick intro into my experience with breastfeeding to answer this question. Breastfeeding was really the first introduction to mom guilt for me.

And it's something you've heard about, I think other moms joke about it. It's not really funny at all. It's something quite serious. And for me, I just remember in the hospital feeling so overwhelmed, having gone through what felt like a week, in labor. gone through a c section.

Your body is recovering. Mentally, you're exhausted. Your boobs are sore because the milk is coming in. And your whole body is just going through this massive, this change, and I just remember feeling overwhelmed with this new sensation of mom guilt. For the first time and okay, this is what it is.

It's this sinking feeling in your heart, in your mind. And it's a little voice at the back of your head. That's I don't know if what you're doing is the best for your baby. Regardless if it's best for you, because you literally become second to what the baby needs straight away when you become a mom and breastfeeding was such a challenge for me , my body was doing such a great job, midwives and the nurses were, they were really

they're like, wow, you're making a lot of milk. That colostrum is amazing. And I was like, oh, okay. Awesome. Great. Yes. Go be, that competitive thing kicks in, but then, I put Kenzo on my breast and he knew what he was doing. He managed to. Latch on really well, the little mouth that's so cute, but for me, I was like, Oh my God, this is so painful.

I don't know how to put you on. I don't know how to, I don't know the angle. I didn't know the different holds . And I'm like, Oh my God, I, , Matthew and I went to the pregnancy class and they mentioned breastfeeding. It was probably like 10 minutes of a two day course.

And I feel like it, it's so much more significant than that needs more time. That would be my suggestion if you're listening, but I just think there's just so much pressure. And I remember, obviously I was already questioning myself and trying to get feedback from, my mom and my sister and the nurses and midwives and everyone has a different point of view or opinion.

And I'm like, who am I going to listen to? Oh my gosh. I can. I can try everything and then see what works for me is where I got to, but it's really hard because it didn't work for me at the start. And I pushed through because I was like, breast is best is what I've been told.

It was what I believed. I didn't know any better. And. Regardless of the fact that it was so painful and, there was bleeding and I was like, nah, it has to happen to me. You got to do this. It has to, got to push through. And I did through, blood, sweat and tears. And it got to the point where it was.

It took a lot of time, months, got, it got to the point where, I could just be watching TV and I just put them on and that was fine. But the process to get there was really hard. And I said to my husband, look, if I could do six months of it, this is with Kenzo, my first son. If I could do six months of breastfeeding, we're going to formula because I think by then I've would've had enough, like I did have enough by then.

So we stuck with that. He was thriving. It was all good. And the change from breastfeeding to formula was not an issue. I learned so much through that first experience and I took it to my second experience. With my second son, Ambrose, it's so interesting when you are, when you have knowledge, it was my second time I came to that experience having that prior knowledge and I used it. Ambrose was even more of a chomper. Then Kenzo, my breasts were like, nah, this is not going to happen. And I was like, you know what, it's not because I can put myself first for this one, knowing that I can put Ambrose first too, at the same time, it wasn't one or the other, I could do both.

What's best for both of us. So with Ambrose, I tried in the hospital a couple of times, and then I tried one more time when we go home. And I was like, so it's not gonna, this is not gonna happen. It's just not gonna work. It was really bad that second time, like with the bleeding. I remember this one time when Ambrose vomited blood. With milk and for a second, I'm like, Oh my God what the hell, what is this? And then I realized it's because my breasts, my nipples are bleeding and he was trying to get milk and also swelling my blood.

And I was like, that's it. We're not doing this anymore. So I stopped breastfeeding literally after three, four attempts with Ambrose. There is no way I would have done that with Kenzo, but with the knowledge and that experience, I was able to use it for the benefit of me and him, for my mental health, for my health and for his health too.

And we moved to formula straight away. Pumping is difficult. It's really difficult. Outside of the fact that, my, my breasts were sore and my nipples were back to normal. Pumping is really difficult. It's more time consuming. Your husband's asleep and your alarm goes off because you've got to go feed the baby and you've got to go, after you feed the baby, you put the baby down to sleep and change napping, all that stuff, and then you've got to wash all the equipment, breastfeeding stuff, you've got to sterilize it, put it out to dry.

And then you start that process again and again. So at the start when the baby's cluster feeding and you're doing it like four or five times a night it's really difficult. And for me that also introduced. The feeling or the understanding that being a mum can be really lonely. As much help as my husband provided, and he did a lot, he changed, I think he's changed 90 percent of Ambrose's nappies to be honest, and still does, but yeah, being a mum can be really lonely.

And for me, breastfeeding is one of those things, because as much as other people may want to help you. They can't, with breastfeeding they can't, with bottle feeding, yes they can, but you're still involved in the process. And also, it's really hard to let go of that, but yeah that's my experience in a nutshell.

How about you?

Luckily for me, mine wasn't. traumatic by the sounds of things. But you're right. It is the first time that some of that doubt starts setting in. For me, as far as I know my mom, grandma, great grandmother, like everybody in our family has always breastfed. And a lot of that is because the formula just wasn't available to them.

And I think that set that pressure that, okay, I need to breastfeed. Now I remember the same thing being in the hospital and first time you have to feed and they're like, Oh, you're doing so well. Aiden latched on so well. And I'm like, Oh, great, cool. And the first time I fed, it was fine.

But what kind of shocked me as well with the breastfeeding journey was your uterus contracting something that no one, I didn't even think to ask and no one had ever told me.

Yes. Not that anyone had ever told me the breastfeeding was going to be painful either. But and then I was like, Oh, I'm in a lot of pain. And the nurse is Oh yeah, your uterus is contracting back. It will happen every single time you breastfeed. And I was like, huh, excuse me. What? What do you mean?

And so that was really painful. So that added to the pain. So I was in hospital with Aiden for two nights. It's off my head. So three days and probably by the second or third time that he fed, I was like, holy moly, this is really painful. This really hurts. And I remember asking the nurse, I'm like, am I doing it right?

Are you sure it's right? She's yeah, he's latched on properly. Everything looks good. Told me like, Oh, his chin has to be here. And, he spoke to me about positioning and stuff like that. I honestly, I just thought it was just going to I don't know, like everything just fits together and they just latch on and it's all perfect.

And everyone knows what they're doing, or at least the baby does. Cause they're hungry. They just know how to do it. But no that's. It's not how it is at all. Like it is a learned skill. You have to learn how to, you have to learn how to feed and the baby has to learn how to feed off you and I don't know why I thought it was anything different in hindsight, but that's how it is.

So I remember being in the hospital and going to the pharmacy cause I was like, can you give me something? What can you give me? Cause my boobs are like killing me. Like it is so painful.

I'm like okay, let's try this. Let's try that. And I was ready to try anything at that point. And so we came home and still, it was really painful. And we're keeping like track of when he was feeding. Cause the nurse was going to come over and ask us and we're like, I don't remember and all that fun stuff.

So we're like tracking and how, like how often he was feeding and which boob he was feeding from and how long he was feeding on each boob and just all the things that you. That you do for the first one, which didn't happen for the second one. And I got to, it probably got it got to like at least the first week.

And I was like, I don't think I can do this anymore. Like I'm, I was struggling through it. Obviously struggling through the pain of the uterus contracting and your hormones changing and your hunger changing and just everything was just changing. And it was such a blur. Like the only things that I really remember from those.

Those first few weeks was just the pain of the breastfeeding. It felt to me, it felt like hot shards of glass were being pulled out of my nipple every single time. And every time he would feed, it just, it would bring on anxiety. And I remember like dreading having to feed him. I remember getting really angry with Calvin once because he made a loud noise and the baby woke up and I was like, you wake him up, you breastfeed him.

You just, of course, like he didn't really understand, like I was telling him it was painful, but there was nothing he could do. There was, like you said, there's nothing that they can help you with. You just have to go through it. They can do dishes and they can do all those other things. Sure. But they can't breastfeed or pump for you.

And so I. I would dread it. I would hate feeding him. I was, I tried to explain it to Calvin. I'm like, imagine if I tell you to put your hand on like on a hot stove and it burns your hand, and then an hour later, I tell you, put your hand on that hot stove again. You know the pain that's coming and you can already feel the anxiety build up.

I'm like, that's what it feels like to me. It's I know what's coming what is going on? And it was like every 20 minutes. I'm like, no, this is beyond, enough.

And I ended up going into the hospital and seeing a lactation nurse, cause I'm like, I don't know. I'm at my wits end. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to get through this. I've tried every single cream and thing that you've told me to do. I thought at the time I'd tried everything, but I hadn't.

And she's okay, put him on your boob and let's have a look. She's yeah, look, he's he's feeding good. He looks like he's feeding well, like it's all coming through. She's unfortunately, it's just, you just have to get through this pain. You just have to get through this milestone.

And she sat with me because she could feel how tense I was. She sat with me, she held my hand and. She's just breathe through it. It will get better. I promise. And I think that's just what I needed to hear that it will get better. Cause like in my mind, I was just like, how do I keep going with this?

It's just impossible. Like it's too painful. I cannot do it. And then she told me a couple of tricks about positioning. She's Oh, you can put them down and hold them like a football and do this and do that and see what works. And maybe that'll help, shape there. But basically she said, because at the start.

It probably happened when I came home, but he wasn't positioned properly. And my nipple wasn't sitting in the right spot. And so every single time he was sucking, it was rubbing and it was causing that friction. And so she said, until it heals, it will hurt every single time. But she's if you position him in a different way, it will hit a different spot on your nipple and it might not hurt as much.

So you can get through that pain a little bit better. And she was 100 percent spot on. She was amazing. She actually got me through. And so the first three weeks were brutal. They were hell. They were traumatic and I hated them. And after that meeting, she's right. It got better.

But I positioned Aiden in a different spot and it hurt less and then I swapped boobs and then this one got time to heal and so on and so forth. And that, after that three weeks, it was that magical, beautiful experience where, yeah, I could just feed them and not even think about it and didn't feel anything and it didn't hurt and it was perfectly fine.

With Amelia, it was the same sort of experience, but nowhere near to the same extreme and nowhere near for as long. So I know three weeks isn't even that long, but when you're in it, it feels like three years. Yes. Yes. And with Amelia it was probably, oh, two weeks max, I think. And I already knew the thing, so I started doing them a lot earlier.

And also, it was summer, so I was out and I was just like, letting them healing, letting them air, letting them heal. Whereas with Aiden, we had a lot of people over all the time. So it's like breastfeed and then put them away and they just did not have time to heal. So my advice is let your body heal. Give yourself the time and the space to let your body heal.

Let them out, let them heal try different positions. try different things, see what works for you, because it is brutal. And for those who don't have this pain, like I'm, you are so lucky, please just, Do what you need to do, but for those of you who it is painful, if you can get through it, if you can get advice and try different things, and it does get easier, try and stick it out.

If not, then so be it. I, we ended up trying to go to formula when I went back to work. So I was pumping when I went back to work and it is so time consuming. And we tried formula, but there was a shortage of formula and there was all sorts of things happening at that time. So we're just like, you know what, like I'll just keep pumping for the last.

And then we'll just go to milk cause then Aiden was a year old and we could start the normal milk. And that was it. So that was my journey. We stuck it out. I stuck it out for. 10, 11 months of breastfeeding and then, yeah, and then it went, we went to pumping and then we went to milk.

I've got a, I've got a, I've got a good story about pumping and it's really sad, I think, but for me it really highlights the pressure that we put on ourselves. The mum guilt stuff is just, I think it's never ending. I don't know. Let's talk about it in 10 20 years and see where we're at with mum guilt.

But I, I think it's just something that lingers on forever whilst you're a mum. With Ambrose, okay, so I tried breastfeeding a couple of times, didn't work. Then we went to pumping and I was like, Oh my God, can I pump for six months? I don't know. Anyways, it was about three months. of pumping and my boobs my breasts were just so sore.

I was going through this period where he was drinking less. So I had to really pump to less often. In terms of amount, it's Ambrose, he's an eater. So it's always been, it's always been a lot of milk that he's needed, but. I, yeah, it was about three months. My breasts were just getting really hard, really sore frequently, and I was doing my best to pump the milk out, but it's like a cycle because the more you pump, the more your body produces milk.

And it's just, it's a, it just keeps going. Your body listens to what's going on, right? Your body's incredible. And so I went to see the doctor when it was really sore. It was red. I'm like, I think I have mastitis. I don't know what's going on. And I saw my doctor, and he was incredible. And he just looked at me and he said, just stop. And I was like Oh, wow.

I didn't even think about it as a possibility. Honestly. So crazy. Yeah. And then I stopped.

What a great doctor that, doesn't force you into, feed into the mum guilt and force you into doing something that your body obviously, like you tried, it's not like you didn't try, like you tried and your body is just it's just not happening.

And it doesn't sometimes, like that's just how it is. I think back in, the ye olde days, whatever days they were. And they used to have wet nurses. This isn't a new concept. This isn't a new concept where if a woman had enough money or couldn't breastfeed, that somebody else would breastfeed for her because that formula obviously didn't exist then.

But I don't know why it's so shameful now. I don't know what happened in history. Something obviously changed and it just became so shameful to Not breastfeed, like I get it medically. And I remember when I was pumping and you could see like the color of the breast milk and you could just, yes, you are right.

Your body is just phenomenal. And I remember reading somewhere where the, there's something that happens between the saliva and your boob where your body will actually create the antibodies that your baby needs. Like it reacts to the, your baby saliva and it creates what the baby needs. So I get it right like it is.

Ideally, the better option. Sure. If you can, and it's also free and you don't have to clean up. So there are pros to it.

You could beat yourself up about a million and one things this doesn't need to be one of them, if you can. And have that support network around you, and find doctors like yours that will just tell you just stop. If you're killing yourself, just stop. Great advice. Now, do you think, because you pumped and you used formula, do you think that helped Matthew with bonding with the kids? Because obviously then he could feed them from the bottle.

Yeah, absolutely.

So it definitely helped with my husband bonding with the kids more. And it meant that it was hard when I was pumping because I still had to wake up and pump, but it meant that I could pump and he could feed at the same time. So that was really great. And I think, reflecting on all this stuff, it's so interesting, like the psychology of it all in terms of the mom guilt and all that stuff.

But if I Shh. If we were to have another kid, which we are absolutely not having another kid, you could not pay me enough to have another kid. We can't anymore because, we've done certain things to stop that from happening.

But

I would try again.

Like it's To breastfeed. I would.

Because I think each kid is different.

Yes. As who knows, maybe if we did ever somehow had a third. Maybe that kid, that baby and I would just get it quicker. I'm not sure, but I would quit. I would stop very quickly. Like I did with Sam Rose and quit pumping too. Now that I've had that, that experience, but I would try again. How interesting.

You're right. There's no guarantee that a second or a third or a fourth child, the experience is going to be the same. So you're right. Even for me, if I, hypothetically, which I'm not, but if I was going to have a third child, just because the first two were reasonably, easy. That doesn't necessarily mean that the third one would be the same.

Absolutely. Absolutely. You mentioned that you were breastfeeding for 11 ish 12 months. Did you just stop because you had to go to work or would you have stopped?

Yes. So I was actually, no, sorry, I lied. I pretty much went all the full 12 months, but not full time. So I was breastfeeding at night when I would come home after work.

Obviously throughout work, I was pumping. And I'm pretty sure at childcare, they were getting formula from memory and yes, because there was a shortage, we're like, we can't go full formula and there was all that sort of stuff. So I did breastfeed all the way to the 12 months, but it just progressively like I cut it back bit by bit.

But what's funny is I remember with. When I was pregnant and people are like, Oh, how long would you like to breastfeed for? And I was like, Oh, just until the kids have teeth. Cause once they have teeth, they can just eat food.

I could just go, what was I thinking? I had no clue. Like none whatsoever. I didn't even know when teeth, when kids teeth come through. To have answered that question. So I don't even know why I thought that, but I honestly obviously they come, they start four, five months ish.

And I thought that's just what I would do. I would do it for a few months. And then, I don't know what, I didn't even know what I thought after that. But you just don't know what your journey is going to be like until you start going through it. So it's funny to think about that in hindsight, but you just don't know.

So just take it as it comes, I think.

Yes, absolutely. That would be my experience and advice as well. I think with so many things about being a mum, the whole pregnancy, childbirth, everything, you'd have expectations, but let that stuff go, which is hard to do, but it does help a lot. I think mentally.

If you just tried to let expectations go and roll with the situation, if you can. If someone was pregnant right now or about to get pregnant and they had no idea about breastfeeding or anything that happens to their breasts or, their body in terms of the breastfeeding aspect, what would you tell them about it?

It's the first sort of step in the journey, right after you give birth. It's. The first thing that changes to your body quite drastically, cause obviously the pregnancy is like a 10 month long process and it's, you grow slowly over the 10 months. The breastfeeding aspect of it, pretty much straight away, your boobs start hurting.

, it almost feels like you're in labor again when you're that's how it felt for me. When your uterus is contracting it felt like I was going through labor

again. Because in labor, your uterus is contracting, trying to push this baby out. And then it's happening again when you are, when you start breastfeeding, cause your body's trying to get back to its normal, before state, which is crazy.

It took nine, 10 months to get there. And now in weeks or whatever it is, it's trying to contract. So you can imagine that pain.

Yes, that's what I mean. Like it's not, it's bam, it just hits you. And then you're bleeding and then sleepless nights. And it is a lot going on at once. Then of course, like the pain of like your milk setting in and if you do happen, if the baby does sleep for say, four hours, hopefully they sleep for a decent chunk of time for you and then you haven't fed and it's my boobs really hurt and you can't sleep on that side.

And it's and then of course you put the baby on your boob and it's oh, it hurts when it comes out and there's all those things, the physical. The physical pain is intense. And then the other end of that is when you stop breastfeeding and you're left with these deflated, saggy sacks of flesh that you're like, what on earth is this?

This is not what I look like. And you just want to cry and you look at yourself in the mirror and it's so depressing. And You just think you're never getting your body back. You do. It might not be exactly the same, but I can honestly say now that. It definitely exercise has helped going back to the gym and doing my regular exercise has definitely helped.

So I can only speak to that. But I feel like my boobs are back where they were. I think, I could be in denial. I'm

just going to put it out there, if you're listening and you really can't see in video too, but we're quite different physically. Like I've got really small breasts and Dinah's got bigger.

And, I just, I was just some of the things that I thought about that really quickly is the milk production has got nothing to do with the size of your breasts. And that was something I don't know, I didn't read it anywhere or anything, but I was just like, I had in my mind, I was like, Oh, how are these, how am I a little breast going to go?

Not an issue. It's got nothing to do with the size of your breasts. With the post breastfeeding experience, even mine, I felt like they were like deflated balloons. Where are these perky breasts that used to be there? It's so interesting. And I do agree that they are maybe almost back to normal, but I don't think they'll ever be exactly how they were because I've gone through this massive transformations, massive change.

It makes sense. But how about before you give birth, because there's changes. I didn't actually experience any change with my breasts during pregnancy. I was like, they should be up a few sizes. Should they, right? I didn't have that experience. Not really. Did you have that? Did yours just get.

Yeah. Yeah, they did.

They got bigger. And I don't know if that's just like from weight gain because at that point my milk hadn't come in or anything. So my boobs were huge and it's not fun. It's really not fun because you can't sleep and you can't, they're in the way and they're a bit of a nuisance. But yes, they did. They got bigger.

And definitely while I was breastfeeding, that would just ginormous. And, yeah. You're right, it has no bearing on whether you make milk or don't, or how much you make, like that's a complete misconception. That's pretty much all I remember from pregnancy. I think the majority of the change definitely happened afterwards.

And it's like I said, they're definitely not 100 percent back to where they were. They're not the deflated balloons. They were like, when I finished breastfeeding, that was like a big stop. And obviously they were perkier because they were full of milk. So they were, nicer and more round and all of that.

And then as soon as you stop, it's There's nothing in here. And that, that was like a big shock and I seriously thought I'm like, okay, this is just another thing that's changed. Another thing that's not going to go back to what it was. And I just have to come to terms with it and love my body for what it is.

Like it. Fed my child, like I just have to, I just have to learn to love it somehow. But like I said going back to the gym and doing all my regular activities, like I can honestly say they definitely don't look like deflated balloons and they are somewhat back to normal.

Oh gosh, I just remembered how sensitive they were when you start breastfeeding. I remember, gosh, I remember they were so sensitive. The only thing I could do was literally walk around topless. Anything that touched them.

If even if you have a silk top or like the, a maternity bra that you thought was really soft. Nah, forget it. Anything that touched them. I was like, , I can't do this. Just like they need to be out. They need to be aired. They need to just not be touched. To me. I was like, wow, that's. That was a learning as well.

Did you experience that?

Not to that extent. Like I said, especially with Aiden, I was covered up most of the time. It was winter and a lot of people over and stuff. So majority of the time I was covered up. I do remember them being really sensitive, but not to that extreme where I just couldn't put anything on.

Cause I remember having clothes on. Yeah that's a lot. But luckily you had that because then that forced you to leave them free and air out. So maybe that helped, maybe

it helped. Yeah. They do say if you let it air out, it helps it to heal faster.

I can attest to that. It definitely with Amelia that helped a lot.

How did you go with the transition between your boobs obviously being used for sexual purposes to then seeing them as an object that would feed your child and then going back to Then being a sexual object did you find that transition easy? Hard? How did that go for you?

This is an interesting TMI. No, not at all. I'm happy to discuss it. Absolutely. Personally, I was okay with it. It was, look, it was a massive learning experience. The first time, first few times doing wow, the purpose of them has changed completely. That was really interesting.

I think it would have been an interesting experience for Matthew, in terms of that change, that shift of the purpose of them, , but for me, it was okay. And look, full disclosure, you don't really want to have sex when you're going through all this. And if you do, good for you, but my body had just gone through C section with chemso. Sex was like, there is no, zero, negative interest in that . And then with Ambrose I also had a C section, so that, it just wasn't on my mind.

So for me, easy peasy in terms of making that shift from boobs being part of the, the sexual thing to boobs being part of giving my son's life or helping them, thrive, that kind of stuff.

How about you? So in a nutshell, it was easy. I thought it wasn't going to be though.

So I Thought, because my boobs are quite sensitive and I was like, what, I didn't even know who to ask. And in fairness, I never asked anyone. Cause I was like, I'm just going to keep this and take it to my grave. But now I'm sharing it because I don't know why. But I remember thinking, Oh my gosh, what happens if I'm breastfeeding and I get turned on?

What does that mean? What do I do? It is not like that at all. So if anyone has that thought. Oh, you mean yes, because. Yeah, so my boobs are really sensitive and I was like, what happens if that happens? What am I gonna do? What does that mean? Is that weird? Am I a weird person?

I, there's all this stuff was going on in my head. Because that's all I've ever used it for. Like it's only ever been used for in a sexual Situation like it's I've never breastfed before, so I didn't know how it would feel how I didn't know anything. And that was my first thought.

I'm like, Oh, my gosh, what am I going to do? Do I need to go see someone? Do I need therapy? What happens? And because it's, it's not a question that most people ask. I just kept in the, let's just not tell anyone that I'm a weirdo. And yes, Aiden came along and it was just, it was not like that.

Like it was very bonding. Like I, I did love breastfeeding in the end. I loved, him being in my arms and just, being so connected and just watching him feed. And I I love that. So it was nothing sexual about it at all, but it's just, it's also a different feeling like that sensation is a very different feeling.

And yes, it was definitely not like that at all. So if anyone has that concern. I promise you, you'll be fine. There's bleeding and contractions and so many other things going on that's probably what helped him. It's no, this is like a medical thing. This is a life giving thing. And this is not a sexual thing at all.

But it does change that view on how you see your boobs. And especially, like I said, after I stopped breastfeeding, like I didn't feel sexy. I didn't feel nice. And. So it did change, but it's just another phase and you go back to now I feel better about myself and I feel sexy again and all those things.

So it's just another thing in the roller coaster of motherhood.

Just enjoy the ride, guys.

Just hold on. Hold on for dear life. Oh gosh. So we both tried different things and we spoke about airing it out and how we found that really helpful. What things you tried and what worked and what kind of didn't what were some of the things that you tried to heal?

Yeah, absolutely. Stuff that really worked for me was When I was trying to stop breastfeeding and you want to reduce the milk, so you're pumping or you're breastfeeding less, obviously, cabbage leaves, get a cabbage. From, wherever, wash them, obviously, keep them in the fridge. You take the cabbage leaves off. You want ones big enough to cover your boobs. For me, small boobs, easy. Your breasts feel really hot often when there's a lot of milk and they're feeling a bit engorged.

And you put the cabbage leaves on straight from the fridge and they're cold. So they were instantly cooling. And then I just stuff them in between a bra. wore them all day, smell like cabbages, doesn't matter. The cabbages after a while, like after a couple hours or whatever it is, they wilt. It's like they absorbed, I don't know the medical stuff behind it and I did Google it, but it's like in a way they've absorbed the heat.

They release some sort of gas as well. And anyways, it just, it really helped me and I'd really highly recommend it. If you. I have a really hot breasts whilst you're breastfeeding put them on every now and again, when you're trying to wean off breastfeeding, have them on all the time. I had on for I don't know, four days or something.

And by the end of it, I was pretty much done and it was a slow, I didn't want to just drastically wean because I wanted to be gentle with my body. And I just do it slowly. And that was really amazing. So cabbage leaves. In the fridge, wash them, really great for your breasts, cooling and helps you to wean.

Another thing I did was in the shower with the hot water just directly on your brace. And when you're, when the milk ducks clot which happens just massaging them quite roughly actually, like really massaging them underneath the hot water.

And that really helps to remove the clots. It's just, you want the milk to evenly. Exit your body. It's yeah, so that was really great You could also use like a I think they use a comb just to push it out as well That was really great What else did I do?

Look air them out as much as you can whilst you're going through that especially the early days when everything's sore and broken I tried All the creams. The best thing for me was breast milk. So put some breast milk on your nipples when they're really cracked. Let them air out.

It dries. Breast milk is an incredible, it's liquid gold, formula is nothing compared to breast milk. Hence why people recommend breast is best and all that stuff. There is things in breast milk your body has made specifically for your baby. And so it's got so many healing properties.

Just putting milk, breast milk on your breasts really helped just to let the heal. So I'd highly recommend that too. How about

you? Yeah, I'll have to validate exactly what you said. Breast milk. Yes. A hundred percent. Just get a little bit, just rub it around and then just. Free ball it, just let them heal in the sun, if you can, if it's that time of year.

I also tried every cream and every natural remedy that you can possibly think of, and I can't say that it helped. Like maybe it did, but I can't give any definitive answer that it helped. Cold compress tried those. They were good too. And I used to. Massage when I was breastfeeding, so I remember the nurse gave me that gave me that tip and she's I just massage like your boob as you're breastfeeding and it'll just help to prevent any of those clots and clumps in your boob, but yeah, they're the main one.

Breast milk, use that. Air it out and just massage your boobs as often as you possibly can, just to prevent any clots there that and change the position of the baby. I think that was a good one as well. Change the position of the baby so that you're not in the same spot every single time.

And also change breasts. Change

boobs. Yes. Yes.

I think every mom, and, there's memes about this, when one boob is fully just full of milk and one is completely deflated balloon, as we've talked about, it's so interesting.

You learn really quickly when that starts to have Yes. Change it. Make sure you know what breast you've just fed from it's so funny.. Okay. So I think that's us for today in terms of breastfeeding.

I'm sorry. I got so emotional. It's still, it still hits me, there will always be those who have an opinion on what you choose to do. There were people who disagree with you. There'll be people who give advice. So just try to take it in and roll with it, but also listen to your gut and know that there's going to be some stuff that you learn from.

It's just how it is. But , grab that support when you need it. You are doing an incredible job. We're sure of it. If you have anything that you'd like to comment in terms of breastfeeding or if we've missed something that you feel we should talk about further, let us know and we'll talk to you soon.

Bye.