Milk and Madness

Because you're already tired, you're already stressed, everything's already magnified by all of those things that sometimes even the smallest thing can trigger you.

 Blue skies, rose tinted  glasses running around, like, you know, singing la la la all the time. Definitely not.

Hello friends. This is Nhi and Dee. We're the hosts for the Milk and Madness podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. In our last episode, we discussed our parenting styles as determined by an online quiz. If you haven't had a chance to listen yet, spoiler alert, we're going to continue the discussion in today's episode.

We'd recommend listening to that episode first, as we go into a little bit more detail about the main parenting styles.

So as a brief overview, the four main styles are authoritarian, which is a focus on obedience and punishment as discipline.

The authoritative, which is creating positive relationships, but also still enforcing rules. There's permissive where there's no rules that are enforced and kids will just be kids. Style of approach and the uninvolved parent, which is providing very little guidance.

Very little nurturing or attention. So after taking the quiz ourselves and having the discussion in the last episode, and Nhi and I, both agree it was a really reflective piece. So we asked our partners to complete the quiz . And today we'll delve into their parenting style and how that. Either compliments or conflicts with our own.

So let's start with Matthew, Nhi's husband. Can you tell us what parenting style the quiz gave him and maybe a little bit about that parenting style? Yes, he got nature and we'll make sure that all the sources are listed in our show notes for you to reference. So some believe it is a combination of attachment parenting and sustainable living. Others may include holistic health practices, unschooling and off grid.

Natural parenting is gentle and intensive, encouraging parents to stay in tune with their child's needs. You know what is best for your child and you have a community to guide you along the way. Natural parenting focuses on a parent's instinct and intuition. It breaks moulds of what parenting should look like and invites us to redefine what parenting means to best meet our family's unique needs.

Natural parenting allows children to develop at their own pace. The practice ensures children are meeting developmental milestones while being mindful that meeting these milestones is about the child's best interest and not done with a competitive mindset. Hmm. That was an interesting description.

I feel I think, okay, actually having just read that. I would say some of it makes sense because as it describes that it is a style that compliments attachment and we all know from the previous episode that I am attachment and through the conversation last week, it became clearer and clearer to me that yes, this is accurate.

So I think some of that definitely makes sense in terms of it, it complimenting attachment, because I do feel that Matthew and I our parenting styles have really, I would say they're different, but they're closely related enough that honestly, we don't have a lot of issues or a lot of conflict in terms of, Oh no, you want to approach it this way.

I want to approach it that way. Right. So I think overall, it sounds really flexible. It sounds really open to I think it's, to be honest, I feel like it's a bit more flexible than he is. I'm not saying he's not flexible, but maybe a little bit more than, than what, you know, I've experienced being his partner, but overall I would say, yeah, you know, you know what, I think I do agree, which is, which is quite interesting.

Let's move on to Calvin before we deep dive further. So Calvin, your hubby got attachment like me. He did. He did. Initially I was a little bit surprised and then once you think about it and you really kind of really think about it and you're like, yeah, remember this and remember that , yep, totally attachment.

For those who haven't had a chance to listen to last week's episode attachment parent as defined by parents.com is a nurturing and hands on approach. These parents think that putting a child's needs first leads to independence and emotional stability. Parents who follow this style value physical closeness, such as bed sharing, co sleeping, extended breastfeeding, positive discipline and other attachment based approaches to raising children.

A study of the American Academy of Pediatrics found an association between sensitive, responsive parenting and children's language skills, specifically kids of parents with higher levels of responsiveness and warmth had more than two times better language skills than children whose parents were less responsive.

On the other hand, this parenting style is demanding and can sometimes feel out of balance when parents are less flexible in their approach. That describes Calvin to a T in some ways and then in other ways. No. So kind of what we were saying last week that these descriptions, of course, are sort of more like the extreme version, and that we feel that we're always going to be a mixture.

And same with Matthew, like he is a mixture, maybe nature, but not as flexible. Like maybe he has some routines, maybe there's some other parenting style that is mixed in, in the mix. And same with Calvin, like definitely, I think he gravitates towards attachment but yeah, he's a, he's a bit of combination of a couple of different styles as well.

In regards to your approach, because you, you mentioned, so obviously talking about nature and talking about attachment and they do complement each other. It's kind of like they're both a style. I think it said that it's within the same sort of style. So you found that your parenting styles with Matthew, they do complement each other. You don't have a lot of differences in the way you approach things? I think generally, yeah, there hasn't been many issues at all. And it's something I've been thinking about actually since our last, since our last episode, because you might not know, how are you going to be as a parent before you become a parent often?

But then on the other hand, it's an extension of you. It's an extension of your personality, extension of what drives you, what annoys you, \ you know, what makes you tick. I really do think that. And I think that if you have a great relationship with your partner and you get along, then hopefully, you know, becoming parents is an extension of that.

I think, I think as people, if there were things that Matt and I, We're really like head butting on, then I think that might translate into a parenting styles, right? Like if, If he was really all about nature and all that stuff, and I was, let's just say authoritarian or something like that, I feel like that would be a really big conflict in terms of just day to day approaches to, to parenting.

But I think in our situation, we've been really lucky and I'm not surprised. Like we get along. So, which is, which is good cause you know, he's my, my partner at all. But overall we, yeah, we, we, I think our styles have really complimented each other. And there's been a few things where we're like, okay, well, I think maybe this and you think this and okay, well, we can do some sort of merge version of it where we have defined it in a way that works for us and for our kids.

So I think I've been really lucky in regards to that. How about you?

For us, it's slightly different. I'm not sure if I completely agree, it's due to the parenting styles. I think Calvin and I are very chalk and cheese and we've known this from day dot. Like we are very polar opposites in our personality and it seemed to have worked. Like it, it just works some, somewhere along the line, something, some way we compliment each other in, in our personalities.

When it comes to parenting though, I feel that it has gotten harder because even though as a couple we were okay and we were fine with who we were and who we were in our relationship after having kids that kind of changed and I think we both really reflected on how different we are and that translated into how different our parenting styles are.

Not to say that those two parenting styles don't complement each other but our personalities I think or the way that we want to do certain things. I feel like we do argue a lot about the kids and about the way that we should be doing things and just in general , about stuff. So yeah, maybe it's more personality thing, less, less parenting approach.

But I don't know, the more we kind of do these podcasts, the more I get to reflect, the more I really get to think about these topics. And sometimes it really, you really do have those moments where like, Oh, now that I'm thinking about this more and more. It's, it's making more sense or it's explaining why certain things are a certain way.

So, Yeah.. I really appreciate that honesty and you know, that's what we're about this podcast. We're real and we're going to say it how it is. And like, I'm not saying that Matthew and I are like, You know, blue skies, rose tinted glasses running around, like, you know, singing la la la all the time. Definitely not.

But I think in terms of when you become parents, the spotlight on your relationship, the impact of parenting on your relationship is so intense. And honestly, like there's just so much that you could try to anticipate for or prepare for, but there's so much that you just can't because you've not been through that situation before.

And we have discussed before, and I think we touched on this a little bit last week where you don't really know what kind of parent you're going to be when you, before you become a parent, you might have some inkling. Yes, I do think it's an extension of personality in some way, but then it's a, it's a, it's a new branch of your personality that you haven't explored before.

I think any differences in your personality styles. And any potential, any little thing that might become an issue will be magnified when you become a parent. And that's the reality because you're just thrown into the deep end straight away and you've got to be told to swim.

You're going to swim right now. And then to learn to swim is hard. That's a really hard process. So I think what you're saying makes perfect sense in terms of that and It's just, it's just navigating the differences. So, you know, If we could turn back time before you guys became a parent, is there anything, I don't know, maybe advice to someone who's listening right now, who's thinking about becoming a parent, like, is there anything that you could have done or they could do to help prepare for any key differences that they're going to experience when, when they become a parent?

I think the best advice that I can give someone is to really work on themselves first, because regardless of what comes, regardless of what happens, if there is a conflict, it's all about how you handle it.

So if it does come to a stage where, you do fight, like things do come up, even though you are quite similar, things will come up where you disagree, or you don't quite like how they handle that particular situation. If you get triggered by things, or if there's just something that conflicts and, if you're with someone you would assume that you already communicate and you already do all those things and that your values align and all that sort of stuff.

So there shouldn't be anything drastic that comes up that you're going to conflict about that it will end up in separating because you didn't talk about these things before, but definitely have those conversations beforehand if you need to about raising your kids and all of that. But for me, it would just be working on yourself because the way that I can communicate with Calvin the way that we can resolve through those conflicts is probably the biggest takeaway for me in terms of resolving my own childhood trauma and my triggers and all of that, because he doesn't know those things.

So if he might do something or he might say something and if I react poorly in those situations, it can cause just, it just causes conflict. But if I sit him down, I say, Calvin, like this is what happened to me. This was my experience and I'd like to avoid it happening to Amelia or I'd like to avoid putting these ideas into Aiden's head. We can have that mature parent to parent conversation together and I won't be as triggered and I won't, I won't fade off my emotions.

So I think parenting, because you're already tired, you're already stressed, everything's already magnified by all of those things that sometimes even the smallest thing can trigger you. But if you can resolve those triggers, if you can try and heal those things before becoming a parent, I think it makes such a difference through that parenting journey.

And it's definitely helped for me and I didn't do it before I had kids. I only started doing that after having kids. So you can do it anytime. Yeah. Your journey of self discovery has been really when you became a mom. And I think from our previous conversations, that was the catalyst for you to start that journey.

So I think that's great advice. Like if you could start that journey before you become a parent, but that will give you more mental space, I suppose, to focus on becoming a parent. Whereas you've had to juggle that, who am I as a woman, you know, As a human being as who is D who is Diana, and then also who is Diana as a mom, as a partner, as a wife, right?

Yes. I think I went through that personal discovery kind of journey way before becoming a mom. And that's probably really helped me. And so some background stories, like I was, I'm like, I'm thinking how far away, how far back do I go? But I was, in terms of like relationships and my identity and, and, how those two connect.

Like I was with my high school boyfriend for seven years, almost eight years. Right. And so, and he was absolutely just the best first boyfriend you could ever have. Like just incredible. So my, my foundation in terms of relationships and stuff was really solid.

And then after him, I was single for a long time and I absolutely made the most of that and I lived in London and I traveled and you know what I genuinely found myself in that time. I redefined who I was. I loved myself and I, I still do. And I really do think you need to love yourself truly before you can love anyone else and know who you are and all that stuff.

And I did all that way before I met Matthew. So when I met Matthew in my head, I was like, okay, this is what I want. This is who I want. You know, this is the stuff that I need. And these are the things that I'm not going to budge on all that stuff. And I think maybe from the start, Matthew and I already on the same page and certain things like he always wanted to be a dad.

And we did, we did not, not as much as I think people should do if you're listening, you know, I don't think you should do it, but have those conversations in terms of like, what's important to you as a kid, what did you not get when you were growing up, you know, what were your parents like? , what positive things do you remember when you're growing up, what things, you know, still kind of might cause nightmare now.

So I think if you, if you can possibly start that journey earlier, and then when you meet your person, have those conversations as early as you can before you become a parent. I had some, I have some friends actually, I just remembered something, which I think could be interesting to some listeners, but I have, you know, friends who I actually set up and now they have a daughter and they live together.

But before they had their daughter, they bought a deck of cards and I shall find it and I'll put it in the sources, but it was all about becoming a parent and all these questions. Right? And I remember they mentioned I was already parent at this stage. So, it was probably too late for us, but they went through that, those, those cards and they told me it was amazing.

It was so great. So I will find it and I will put in the sources that anyone, you know, if you're listening and you're thinking of becoming a parent or you're getting a bit serious with your partner, like I think go through it because it will highlight to you some stuff that maybe you need to talk about, some things that you need to work out before, before you're thrown in the deep end and

you know, there's lava on the floor or whatever it is. So, but yeah, yeah. Where were you seven years ago? I could have used those cards. Sorry, I didn't use them either. But actually, you know, I might, I'll look them up because it might be good now even. Yeah, I agree. They can't hurt you know, to use them now, even just as a check in, like, are we still on the same page?

Are we still aligned? But I 100 percent agree that those cards or even just having the conversation. You didn't need the cards. You just had the conversations. Those conversations are really, really important because you just, you don't know, you can't assume. Like, I've had close friends that I've known for years and years and years, and they'll randomly say something that, for whatever reason in my head, I just would not have like thought that they would ever think that or say that.

And then I realized I'm like, wait, we've never spoken about this before. When you become friends with certain people, sometimes you, I think you think that they just think like you, well, I do anyway. I'm just like, Oh yeah, they think like me. And then when they say something that's just completely opposite to how I think, I'm like.

Oh, okay. That's not what I assumed which is on me, not on them, of course, but same with partners, sometimes you don't know how they're going to, how they feel about like ear piercing. Cause that's still a thing. Luckily Calvin, I agree on it, but they just, they'd, you know, you might disagree with you about it.

Okay. Well, there you go. If I had a daughter and even if Kenzo said to me, I want my ears pierced, I'm like, sure, let's do it. But I think for you, it's, you want them to be old enough to want to do it, right? Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's not that I'm saying no, it's just, I, in my culture, it's something that they do, we do when they're about three months old.

And I disagree with that. I, I, yes, yes. Us is the same. Like I asked my mom recently because my sister is thinking of getting her daughter's ears pierced and she's she was one end of last year. So, and I was like, I would have done it already.

Right. So there you go. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. So, and that's fair. But like, if Matt had turned around, it's like, no way. Like I don't want to, then it's yeah, let's chat about it. And I guess those cards are also good because if there is something that you conflict on to your point earlier, is there room to compromise or is it a hard, no, I'm not doing that.

And I'm not budging. Like that's, that's what it is. Like, for example, our first Aiden is a boy and Calvin wanted to have him circumcised. And had we have had that conversation before, it might've made things a lot easier. Not that we had really big conflicts about it. It was more, more me saying it's a hard no from me.

Not doing it. I don't see the point in it personally. This is how he was born. This is his body. It's, if it's for medical reasons, absolutely sure. But I'm not doing that to my child. It's a hard no. And if anything happens, it's on you. If you decide to, to go ahead with that. I wish we'd had that conversation earlier because we could have then spoken about it a little bit more.

And obviously my emotions probably, I probably didn't handle it the best way, like just putting my foot down and saying no. I didn't really give him the space to talk through it and why he wanted to make that decision and all that sort of stuff. So I think if we had those cards, it would have been good to define what is what, where there's wriggle room and where there's no on either side.

So we'll, we'll add those in the show notes because that's a really good suggestion. I'm just thinking that in terms of parenting, You know, it's, it is true what they say in terms of, it takes a village, it takes a community to raise your kids. And I think, you know, this parenting style stuff is still valid.

It's still something to think about, even if you're a single parent and if you're listening and you are a single parent, honestly, I don't know how you do it. You are absolutely incredible. And I'm sure you're doing an amazing job. But if, even if you are a single parent. There's still people involved, right?

In terms of parenting, there's still like your family or your close friends or whoever it is that you might get help to babysit or, you know, they come over for lunch, even for those couple hours that they're there, they need to adapt to your parenting styles because of their, you know, your kids.

Right? So it's, it's really interesting. And I, I did think about this because, you know, I know with your experience and where you're at right now that you find it a bit harder to let other people babysit or look after your kids. And I know that comes back to like boundaries and

setting that up really early. But in terms of just, you know, other people who are involved in your kids lives and their styles, like, have you had issues with that where you've had to be like, actually, no. Can you not talk to my kid like that? Or that's not how I would deal with that.

What's been, what's your experience with that? So I'm going to challenge a little bit on the first part of that. I, I personally don't feel that people need to adapt to my parenting style. So if people come over or anything like that, like I don't expect them to adapt to my

parenting style. Sure. And that's probably not how you meant it, but I do think that they need to respect me as a mom and as a parent, and they need to. If I'm not giving my kids sugar or if whatever the situation may be, then they need to respect that. Yeah, I think, okay, just, I just wanted to clarify.

They need to respect to you in terms of you're the parent, right? Yes, yeah, and, and follow my rules as a parent. So if I've said no, no playing after whatever time or you have to go to bed at whatever time. They have to, yeah, respect that. So you hit the nail on the head because you're right. You know me, obviously.

So with regards to our community and our families, Calvin and I are aligned in that we really wanted to be hands on parents. And we really wanted to control the narrative and the exposure that our kids have.

Not to say that I don't see people and friends and family and, and all of that, but . We did make a conscious choice to not let family babysit. And as I've mentioned before, it was just through a few red flags, a few instances where our parenting style wasn't being respected or our parenting rules or our parenting guidance wasn't being respected.

And I, I think it. It sets a really poor example on the kids, and I have personally seen it through friends where, unfortunately, they're in a situation where both the grandparents were separated. So there was like partners, and it was just a massive family. And when they would go to the grandmother, they would have this rule.

When they would go to the grandpa, they would have a different rule. When they would go to the other grandmother, had a different rule. And then when they came home, the poor kids were just so confused and had no idea what rules to, to obey, had no idea. They were just confused. There was just mass confusion everywhere.

And then the parents of course, had to deal with that when they're at home, because they're with them most of the time. And I had to deal with that. And of course they didn't listen to them and it just, it became a nightmare. And unfortunately those particular friends ended up splitting because it just caused such conflict in the household.

They didn't have control of the kids. It's just how it happened. It was through needing the help because of work. And it wasn't that they were just being lazy and they were just dumping their kids on family and stuff. It's just, they, they needed to work and I am lucky enough that, Calvin and I both can look after our kids and we have a really good routine in that we know we discuss, can you do this?

Can you look after the kids? Can you do the drop off? Can I do the drop off? And we're really good in that regard. And we both were aligned on that particular topic. As the kids get older, though, And they know the rules and they know the expectations of them. I think we'll kind of let them go a little bit more, and we might have to have some hard conversations that come.

But I really felt that, especially in those early years, especially when they're developing and their brains are developing and they're learning what's expected of them. I really didn't want them to be confused and to have mixed, mixed information, mixed, mixed signals from different family, different people to say, this is okay.

And all that now gets to a stage where, because Aiden's older and he can understand, and if I say to him, it's okay, if you watch TV for two hours, when you're at grandma or grandpa's house or whoever's auntie's house or whoever's house, because that's okay. But that's at their house. That's a special treat.

When you go to their house, it's not going to happen at home. So, and he would understand that concept now, whereas when he was younger, he wouldn't have known. And yeah, there's just little things where he's allergic to peanuts and I still I'm not quite sure that's, that's, that's sunk in I don't think people really understand what that means.

And so that scares me when , medical things are a little bit misunderstood. So I just feel like it's just easier and we haven't had the need to, like, I know that it's probably not great cause it hasn't. created a bond with their grandparents. They do have one. So when we go, we're there and they do play with them and it's all fine.

But helicopter parenting me is always there and yeah, we just haven't had the need to, like there's been no times where Calvin and I have been in dire straits where we're like, we haven't organized our lives well enough to be able to look after our kids. So yeah, that's, that's where we're at currently.

Stay tuned. I'm sure that'll change over the course of the next couple of years. How about childcare? Has there been any issues at childcare? No, the only issue that we had with childcare was around Calvin and I disagreeing on whether they should go to childcare.

I was, I was very for childcare. He was very against childcare. But I think when we had the conversation and I said, well, I need to go back to work. I need my life back or some form of it. Cause you're never going to get it completely back. I need to have purpose. I need to make my own money. I need to have my independence and I need to go back to work as well as that

I could see the benefits in going to childcare. Around their development and language skills and social skills, and even just germs. Like he needs to, because Calvin was really worried about germs, attachment parenting. No, no, I need to keep them safe. Bless Calvin. And also he loves spending time, the same as you, like he loves spending time with the kids.

Like he's taken time off over school holidays to spend time with the kids. So he just loves spending time with the kids and there's nothing wrong with that. But I just had to. Explained it to him that, you know, come on, like you can't be there all the time. Like you need to let go. So in some ways we compliment each other in that, in that regard that I'm like, okay, let go and let them, let them be.

And he's like, no, no, no. And, and I'm like, helicopter hovering. And he's like, just let them be . So it's, it's, it's not all bad. It's, there are things that we, I discovering as we go along that we are not aligned on, but we, like I said, we have those conversations and we Mm-Hmm. figure out how to make it work.

How about you guys? Is there a common theme on, on things that you constantly conflict on, that you're constantly not finding common ground on, or is it just random things?

Yeah, there's no common theme.

With parenting, it's like a choose your own adventure situation where things just pop up and then you just deal with it. And And it works or it doesn't work and then, you know, try something else. I feel like we've both been quite flexible in terms of most things, because even when we do disagree, it's like, you know, slightly disagreeing.

It's not opposite. It's not chalk and cheese situation where it's a yes and no. It's a, Oh yeah, maybe often. Oh yeah. Maybe a lot. Like it's, do you know what I mean? Like it's, it's, it's very, it's close. So it's not that it's not been big issue for us. With the parenting style thing and like going beyond just your partner and how other people's parenting styles and how that might conflict with yours because they're involved within your kids lives.

I would say overall it's been pretty positive, pretty easy for us. I am the type of person where I'm going to say stuff because why not say stuff? I'm not someone who's going to sit and stew about something because life is too short to do that. And you know, I, I have pulled people up on stuff. So I will say to my mom, mom, no, can you not do this?

Or can you not do that? It's always in a, you know, open kind of way. It's not, I'm annoyed with you or grumpy. It's not confrontation or anything like that. It's just a, you know, as a mom and they're my kids, can we just not give them heaps of sugar? Can we not do this and all that stuff. But then I also have to respect my mom's approach, for example.

And if she's going to come and babysit, she's doing me a massive favor. So, you know, I've got to be a bit more flexible in terms of certain things, but then there is always a line with things as well. So, you know, and if she crosses it, then yes, I will definitely have that discussion. We've had chats with childcare where maybe.

They weren't across something as much as we would want them to be across. I'm very big on having relationships with everyone I know. All the childcare workers that the kids go to, we have a relationship with all them. I messaged the center director. We, you know, message, we, we laugh and joke about stuff too.

When things come up, it's generally pretty easy for me because I've built that relationship with people, but I will always say something always because you know, my kids are like the most important thing to me and if something doesn't sit well, even just a tiny bit, I will mention it. So you mentioned that when your mom, Kenzo and Ambrose's grandma, babysits, you have mentioned things. I'm sure it's nothing too big, but you have mentioned it. Is that generally well received or does she kind of give you the, I've raised however many kids, like I know what I'm doing. Like, obviously you have a good relationship with your mom.

Is that generally respected? Yes. Yes, absolutely. And I don't think I've had a situation where people haven't I think it comes down to your relationship with people. And I have a really great relationship with my mom. My mom and I have this weird relationship where I honestly feel like the parent sometimes.

She would agree. So yeah, there's, there's been no issues, but I was just, I was just thinking in terms of the process that I take and it's, it's adapted, you know, as I've grown into my role as a mom. So. I would not, I often don't wait until things happen. So, you know, it might, we might come visit Matt's mom.

So they're Nana and right at the start of I'll let her know what's going on with our lives. What's, what's going on with Kenzo's life and stuff that we're focusing on all he's been having issues with this is. Like, I would bring stuff up so that she's across things straight away.

I'm not going to wait until stuff comes up and then she knows that, all he's, you know. I don't know, having anxiety about something or whatever it is, it's, it's just putting it out there. We're open about how things are going. We're open about you know, things that we might be finding challenging as parents or Kenzo might be experiencing any challenges

I think that maybe that approach has really worked in regards to just helping keeping dialogue really open with our community and everyone who's involved with their lives and making sure that we're kind of on the same page as much as we can be, because we know obviously people have different approaches, but if I could help them to get as close to what our approach is, when they're dealing with our kid, then great, but also respecting the fact that there's going to be some differences, as long as those differencess aren't crossing specific boundaries that we might have set.

Then all good. There's I think the more people in their lives, the better, because you're going to deal with such a range of people like in your life and you know, my family, they're bonkers. So throw the insanity in, and then my kids will grow up being super successful and be able to deal with any craziness that's out there.

I think we'll wrap up for today. Having different parenting styles is okay. No one is going to be the same. We're adults and we're parents as well. So disagreeing with someone just it comes part and parcel of life, not just parenting.

We would highly recommend doing this exercise with your spouse with the other people in your community. If you if you wanted to, it really does provide a platform to self assess and hopefully it opens up the door to some positive conversations. As always, thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the Milk and Madness podcast, please leave us a review and we'll see you in future episodes. Bye!